“Your Leader Doesn’t Know Because You Didn’t Tell Them” Brief Summary:
Do you make the assumption, that when you have pressing questions or concerns, or when you are overwhelmed at work that your leader knows, or should know? In this Inspired Action For Imperfect Humans Podcast episode, Kyle Kalloo and Christopher Lawrence debunk the myth that your leader should know, and why it’s important to have the difficult conversations with your leaders.
“I don’t want you to quit this organization or leave this organization and me to find out 10 months later that you hated me as your leader and you didn’t tell me.”
- The fear of having difficult conversations
- “Rejection Proof” by Jia Jiang
- Kyle’s story about an employee who struggled with difficult conversations
- Betting on the “Yes”
- Some facts about asking, and having the difficult conversation
- Tips for having difficult conversations
Calls to Action:
Even before the remote workforce evolution, office culture was inherently fragile. After all, it’s made up of imperfect humans interacting with other imperfect humans. And while perfection isn’t the goal, we all secretly wish for a workplace where people find ways to bring out the best in each other. Unfortunately, that’s not always an intuitive skill. It takes guidance, practice, and then more guidance and practice… but with the right leadership, it’s definitely achievable. How do you enhance your workforce’s ability to engage, collaborate, and adapt in this volatile and uncertain reality? Get the answers to your culture questions when you setup a complimentary Discovery Session with Kyle Kalloo at https://ChangeMyLifeCoaching.as.me/?appointmentType=14623413
Not loving your career? Feel you need a change in your job? Let’s Strategize! Book a complimentary Strategy Session with Christopher Lawrence here: https://ChangeMyLifeCoaching.as.me/?appointmentType=14044176
Tell us your “inspired stories” stories by visiting www.InspiredActionPodcast.ca
Christopher Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/career-life-coach-christopher-lawrence/
Kyle Kalloo LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-kalloo/
Change My Life Coaching & Change My Business Coaching LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/6446498/admin/
Looking to create a corporate coaching culture? Reach out to Kyle Kalloo: firstname.lastname@example.org
“Your Leader Doesn’t Know Because You Didn’t Tell Them” Transcript:
[00:00:00] But it’s interesting because I always say it’s like, I don’t want surprises. If you’re upset about something you need to tell me. And I know that that can be really hard to do, but I don’t want surprises. I don’t want you to quit this organization or leave this organization and me to find out 10 months later that you hated me as your leader and you didn’t tell me why is the thought of being imperfect, keeping you from taking action.
Welcome to inspired action for imperfect humans. Each week, we give you real life stories and thought provoking research that inspires your soul to live a more fulfilled life through your own actions from the heart of Calgary Canada. Here are your hosts award winning coaches, Christopher Lawrence and Kyle Kalloo.
Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. What’s going on Christopher A. Long time though. Has it been 24 hours, I think at least,
uh, [00:01:00] listen, um, I wanted to jump right in today. You know what, let me tell you something. Fix my beautimous hair. Um, I want to tell you something. I have so many clients, so many clients that come in because they’re struggling with something in the workplace. Okay, great. No problem. That happens. That could be solved.
With the conversation. Yup.
I think that people in north America, maybe particularly Canada and I’m stereotyping, I know I’m stereotyping, this is not true of all Canadians [00:02:00] people in other countries will struggle to.
I feel like we were not taught to have the difficult conversations. Okay. Like with, who are you talking about? Like with their partners, with their work, with their, like, who I actually think it’s everyone, although we’re going to call this episode, your, your leader doesn’t know because you didn’t tell them, but this is like cross-functional, it goes into partners.
It goes into, they had to take, we say, if that applies here, it’s going to apply everywhere. It probably apply somewhere else. Right. Like I girl. I just can’t like, I like, I love my job. I love what I do, but I just can’t. I just can’t anymore with this. It’s not about, I can’t help my clients. It’s not that I’m frustrated with my clients in any sense of the word.
What I’m frustrated with is that, [00:03:00] like, this seems like it’s a fundamental skill and it’s certainly one I didn’t learn actually until I started coaching and I sorta feel like, um, I just, can’t kind of with the societal aspect of it. Like we need, we just need to do better at this period. Okay. So tell me more, cause I’m really interested.
Cause I mean, as you were talking, I’m thinking about. As a leader, as a senior leader, there’s many, many times that, you know, people would come into my office or people would talk about stuff or I’d go out and I’d have conversations. And I just got a sense that they weren’t being not to say that they’re lying to me, not to say that it’s, it’s almost like they weren’t being as candid, meaning they’re not being as forthcoming as yeah.
It’s fear. It’s fear. It’s totally fear. Right. It’s totally fear. And I get it because I’m the guy who is like, had to have a difficult conversation with somebody. Back in the day and like big corporate world. And I would sit there and be anxious about it for three [00:04:00] weeks, like heart beating out of chest. And sometimes I would just avoid it.
Didn’t know what to say, always thought I was going to lose my job, you know, and that kind of thing. And, and, and then, you know, and then we have clients who it’s like, it’s like, they’re like, well, my spouse doesn’t blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, did you tell them that that’s what you like? Um, you know, it’s like, I’m very frustrated because my kids won’t blah, blah, blah.
It’s like, and so what did they say when you talk to them about it? Um, you know, and, and my leader doesn’t blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it’s like, well, two things. Remember your leader is not a God. Um, they’re a human being. Who’s looking out for their own best interests too, and that’s okay. Right. We do this, the company and for others, right.
That’s right. And I think middle management has it, the worst in any company. It’s one of the toughest place to places to be, because they’re trying to manage what’s coming down while managing what’s coming up and, and the task load, and they never get enough time to work with their teams. [00:05:00] They’re so task saturated themselves, they never get proper training.Um, and they’re, uh, often afraid of having the difficult conversations with their senior leaders as well. I can remember specific cases of like, like, you know, P clients who wanted a position. I was like, I want to be a manager. I want to be a supervisor. I want to be a director. I want to be a VP. And it’s like, yeah.
And so when you told your leadership that, what did they say? And I was like, no, Yeah, they probably don’t and there’s a way to have these conversations for sure. But before we, before we get into that, cause I mean like, I, my mind right now is exploding because there’s so many, and I think that’s sometimes that’s a challenge between both of us is that as coaches, we know we have to kind of go a little bit lower in it.
To go in deeper and all that other stuff that goes on. Right. And so I’m curious, cause you said something about fear, like fear that you’re going to lose their job. And you know, I’ve heard that many, many times and I can see people sometimes are [00:06:00] intimidated by me and they don’t even know me. I wondered about that as to what it is now you did gave me, you gave me a great insight many years ago, uh, about that, which, you know, I’ll never forget, right?
It’s just how people perceive a certain title, perceive a title or just the, the story. As we often talk about the stories we start telling ourself. But what do you think is behind that fear that they can’t say to their senior leader, especially when they’re asking. Cause there’s times where I’m asking.
Yeah. I think there’s two things. I think that people are afraid of rejection. I think that they’re afraid of hearing. No, I do think everybody on the planet should read the book “Rejection Proof”. Uh, by Jia Jiang J I a, uh, as this first name of J I a N G. Um, for me, that was a life-changing book because it just reinforced the simplicity and asking for what you want, Kyle of I’m reminded of a story you once had.
And I think it struck a chord with me because I think I’ve been this person before. [00:07:00] You once had an employee in another organization that wanted a day off to go do something she just wanted a day off. Can you give us some insight into how that went? Because it was like, this was a real struggle for her.
Yeah. So she wanted a couple of extra days off. I mean, she has been working really hard in the organization. I think she had maxed out her vacation time, which at the time she’s only on two weeks and you and I can go off all day about why two weeks is not enough for a year. I thought for someone, but fair enough, she should max over her days off.
And I guess she had a few things, a little founder that she wants to get done, but anyway, so she was really talking to, you know, her or her people or people around her at the time about getting these days off and, you know, something that’s coming up. But she also was in that piece where she knows the, the dilemma she’s in is that she has no more vacation.
And then is it [00:08:00] going to be time without pay? Right. Because even then I think she conceited. That even if it’s going to be time without pay, she’d still take it, but she just felt away about asking for additional days off. So anyway, um, I didn’t know this at the time, but it was almost a six month workup that she was trying to talk to people about how.
I said, what should I say? Like she was literally trying to plan every, move around this thing and build up. She put on her name on my schedule, the time for her to come up. And I, and I really try. And that’s another lesson for leaders. When your employees put themselves on your schedule? It’s important.
Don’t try to re schedule that I have one leader. It was like girl, even if I was brave enough to say something. She constantly no showed our meetings and she constantly canceled them, but mostly it was no shows, probably 80% of our meetings. And this is actually a leader that I respected, um, when I was working in corporate oil and gas, but it was.
Girl great way to send a message to your employees. [00:09:00] But I was junior, right? I was junior. And so it was like, I didn’t have the maturity to understand what might be happening for her. But, but from my perspective, all I know is that I would often sit in meeting rooms alone and just like, wait. And it’s like, nothing sends a message to your employee.
Like, like, Hey. Um, yeah, just not, if you’re going to show, I’m not even going to tell you that I’m coming, even though I have an admin who could come and tell you, I’m still tied up. Um, and other conversations. Yeah. And, and I know leaders are saying, but I asked and they said it was okay. Of course, they’re going to say it’s okay.
They’re not going to say it’s not okay. Back to our own issue around, you know, people feel somewhat intimidated by your title, your stature, whatever the case may be. Um, and I think Christopher, you have a story too, about when you first met me that you felt a little bit intimidated and I want to hear it.
Uh, story. So hold onto that for a second. So anyway, so the employee felt away and so [00:10:00]finally everyone and a few people, but I found out later on, encourage her to say yes, go talk to him. And I, and she felt a little bit because she’s like we don’t have daily interactions. You know, it’s one of those things where, you know, she was.
A direct report to me, she would have, but again, her supervisor told her the person who can make that call for the extra days off would have to be me. Right. So anyway, that leader, thankfully did not ask on her behalf, which I really thought that was important. I, that it’s important for that to kind of have a conversation.
Right. So anyway, so she came into the office, I saw that we had a meeting and I said, Hey, what’s up. When someone wants to talk to you, I’m thinking it’s serious because remember she’s, you know, her manager and tell me what’s it about, not that I needed to know what it was about, but I appreciate her coming and talk to me.
So she starts off at having this conversation. Oh my goodness. Christopher, she was so nervous. She’s looking down she’s she has some notes on her thing and I just said, take a breath. Sit down and just tell me it’s so tough. What’s [00:11:00] yeah, what’s happening. And so I removed myself from around my desk. Cause sometimes that can be intimidated and I sat to the chair closest to her and I said, what’s going on?
It’s because now I’m thinking some trauma happened like this was a life shattering thing. Yeah. So that was really big. So when she said. The reason why I’ve been, I’m just, I don’t know how to say this. I’ve been trying to plan and how to say this to you. And I just, I have something to ask you and of course, you know, me and my style, I’m like get to it.
Oh my God. It’s yeah. It’s no frustrated me. I’m like, okay, what is it? Right. She goes, I have to do something and I, I don’t have no more vacation left. I’m grateful for my vacation. I took my vacation time. I couldn’t see this coming and I’m hearing all this other stuff. And then she’s like, I just need an extra two days off because I said, no problem.
And then she kept talking and she’s like, here’s what happens. And I had to kind of put my hand on my head on her arm. And I said, you got the two days. And I think [00:12:00] it took her a second to realize she got the, yes. Right. And I kept saying you got the, yes, because I don’t, if I need the information, I’ll ask for the information.
Right. But I think she, she was so prepared on it, whatever, whatever. So anyway, she’s like really, it took her a moment to just sink in. Oh my goodness. Cause where you could see the release, the relief on her, she’d seen lighter. She seemed, and I’m just thinking to myself as she walked on thinking. Why would she get so worked out by this, like, get worked up about asking for two extra days off.
Now she’s a model employee as well. So she could ask me for a week, I would have given it to her. Right. You know, she was a model employee and it’s not that she came in thinking I’m a model employee and I’m entitled to days off. Cause you have some of those people too. Right. But she really was humbled by it and just says, you know, I appreciate, I want to be responsible.
There’s nothing I could have done around it. And she’s she had all the information. She had a list. I just said, take the days off now. Here’s one thing I didn’t say to her, but I thought about it in that moment. [00:13:00] If she kept talking, it would have, I’m like, okay, what is it is sometimes you could talk your way out of a yes, totally.
So that makes sense, yeah. Well, this is super interesting because I like I’ve had that experience before, too, where you wish you had somebody to kind of encourage you through it. But I think, I think some of the key problems here is that we are not rejection proof. Right. So it’s like, I think, I think that we’re, we don’t have a good relationship with hearing no.
Um, and in north America, and I think we’re really afraid of how we’re perceived. Like, as if someone says no to us, we lose value or we’ll lose, lose, worth, or we’ll change their perception. Like, it’s funny because, because you aren’t, you’re an immigrant you’re Canadian resident, but, but you are an immigrant, you came from a different country and it’s interesting because Canadian citizenship, just to be clear for those people wondering about residence.
Oh yeah. Sorry, sorry. Sorry. Yeah. Permanent residency, but you are a Canadian citizen and have been for a long time, but it’s interesting because you grew up in a [00:14:00] household where if you didn’t ask. Yeah. So survival was there and, and, and that was how you grew up that’s and it wasn’t because it’s because your survival was.
It wasn’t because your survival was at stake because your parents, it was just because that was your parents also had to do that. It was part of survival. And so it’s like, you got real comfortable with hearing. No. And, and you got curious about the no, like you were more interested in why, and actually this is why I like that, proof, that book rejection proof, by the way, like.
I’m not promoting the book for any other reason than the fact that I loved it. We’re not getting any kickback or anything. I just, I think it’s just a book that it’s a quick read and I think everybody should read it. If you struggle with, with asking for what you want from your leaders. I said, this’ll be the title of the podcast.
But your leader doesn’t know because you didn’t tell them and that, and that’s it. And so, so actually here’s some interesting things, um, when it comes to asking, sorry, before you go back to that, can I just add something that you said there about the no, you know, growing up, I expected the no. [00:15:00] I already had the no.
That’s what I think is interesting. What I was doing when I asked I’m betting on the opportunity for the yes. Isn’t that interesting, right? The mindset is so although this, this, the, this employee was, you know, preparing for the knowing thought she was going to get a no, and she had all the reasons for it.
Right. When I go in, I’m preparing for the opportunity for the yes. Right, which is so interesting anyway. Well, it’s it’s so, yeah, it’s so interesting. I think, I think that, that says a lot. I think we bring very different perspectives because certainly I would have been more in that position of that employee. And so I look at the circumstance and I think to myself, it’s so good that we bring both perspectives of this because, um, because it’s interesting.
Now, when I talk to my team, I’m really open with my team and I tell them I don’t want surprises, which means. If you’re upset about something and it’s not a surprise, like, oh, there’s been a mistake in work. Right. And this is literally what I say to them because it’s like, it’s [00:16:00] like, I don’t want to make things super, you know, super, super difficult.
If they make a mistake, it’s like, no, no, no. If you make a mistake, bring it to me. Let’s, let’s resolve it. And I promise I’m not going to promise not to be upset because some mistakes are really big and they take some time. But I promise not to be punitive about it. Mistakes can happen. Right. Except for if your name is Kyle Kalloo.
Um, because then you probably deserve the punishment. Um, uh, oh man. I say you’re a little smirk when I said that, but, but it’s interesting. Cause I always say it’s like, I don’t want surprises. If you’re upset about something you need to tell me. And I know that that can be really hard to do. But I don’t want surprises.
I don’t want you to quit this organization or leave this organization and me to find out 10 months later that you hated me as your leader. And you didn’t tell me why. Like it’s like, no, no, no, no. Like that is Primo respect because I try to treat people really, really well all the time. Here’s the. Here, you’re going to, you’re going to go into some facts and [00:17:00] I don’t know where this is on the facts, but I will interject and say most leaders, statistically have said, by the time they find out something is wrong, it’s too late.
Meaning they already went to go look for a job. They already resolved it elsewhere. And all they’re saying is they would want to know when we do that five behaviors. Have a cohesive team workshop. Every time there’s an opportunity where the leader gets a chance to speak to senior leader. And they usually often say that like, if there’s something going on, just tell me.
Right. It may not be a yes. Right. However, I’d rather know, because by the time they know. It’s too late back to a thing right around. I didn’t know. Cause he didn’t tell me anyway. So what are some of the stats out there? Well, so th that’s interesting. So, so when it comes to asking for, for money, when it comes to asking for money or compensation, what we know.
Of those that ask greater than 70% of people are likely to get something they might not get what they asked [00:18:00] for, but they’re likely to get something. So I didn’t know that was that high. Wow. It is. And so the likelihood that you’re going to get a no is is small. It is possible, but it’s small. And then of course, if you get.
The idea is not to just walk away, feeling defeated. The idea is to say, okay, well, what would it take for me to make that in this organization? Even if it’s in one year or two years or five years, what would it take for me to make that in this organization? Right. So that’s, so-so, that’s the, um, So, you know, so, so it’s not just taking the notes about taking that.
No. And turning it into a curiosity that also remove some of the awkwardness from it. So plan what you would do if you were to be rejected, if they say this, what will you say? And it’s not always about convincing them. It’s about getting curious. Right? So, so keep that in mind. Here’s, here’s some other stuff, as many as, uh, as many as seven in ten.
Employees in the workforce would rather keep quiet on an important work issue, then tackle it. Head-on [00:19:00] really Seven in 10, seven in 10, and it’s a fear. It’s a fear about retribution or rejection, uh, comes to the top of the list. Um, so they’re calling this a conversation gap. Here’s the crazy thing. Um, leaders are actually dodging these conversations too.
When they, when they looked at, uh, uh, over 500 full-time leaders. Across various job levels, company sizes. They found that the issue was present across generations and levels of seniority. So this is not generational. It’s not just the millennials. It’s everybody managers are. Are just as likely to admit avoiding difficult conversations as they’re more junior reports now, here’s who struggled the most LGBTQ plus [00:20:00] LGBTQ plus.
Hmm. 80% of that group reported having difficulties with having conversations with their leaders. I think, you know, where I think this, this came from. I think that the reason why this is is because LGBTQ plus and it’s changing our world’s changing. It’ll be interesting to see kind of what the zennials and the younger millennials do with it.
But, but it’s changed a lot. And, and so. I wonder if this comes from LGBTQ plus people having to kind of mold themselves to fit into situations, uh, being socially acceptable, like rejection is always at the forefront. When you, when you grew up in the sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties, fifties, like if you were LGBTQ, you know, and then it was kind of in the two thousands where, you know, you started to see it coming into more mainstream types of things and, and that kind of stuff.
Um, And I, I would wonder, I’m [00:21:00] sure they didn’t survey this, but I would wonder that the LGP, LGBT LGBTQ plus, the rainbow mafia, I know there’s a few people are like, yeah, see, that’s how I feel every time I say it. Uh, however, I think that would probably be similar if not the same for person of color. POCs right.
Where they feel that, you know what, you know, should I say anything? Should I not? What would it look like? Cause I want to fit in. I want to be the steady Eddie. I want to go into that as well. Um, that’s interesting. Wow. It could be, I, this actually comes from a human rights campaign, so I suspect that they would have looked at POC and that number is not noted.
So, and I think I know why the leaders avoid it to either two things avoid the, kind of have a sense probably of something, but they’re not going deeper because they one don’t want to know cause meaning they’re going to have to deal with it. Right. And they too don’t want to [00:22:00] reject someone. I think that could be on, on both sides.
Right. Where they’re like, uh, I kinda, I, I know, I have to say no, I don’t wanna say no. Yeah, I have on that note, I have. Clients that are extremely put out about having to set a boundary. It’s like, why did you put me in the position where I have to say no, Zach, why did you put me in that? They should know.
It’s like, well, why should they know? They’re not, you, they don’t have their values. They didn’t grow up the way that you did. Why should they know? It’s like, so, so Kyle of. I have some suggestions about what I think people should do to kind of overcome this and start to work on it. But what’s your top suggestion?
What, what should people do? What’s the inspired action that these, you know, human beings that are seemingly imperfect should take. We often say when you’re not good at something that requires practice, right. We ought to say, and some that we hear all the time when someone’s like, I can’t do it. What do we usually say?
I think I was you. I first heard it from you’re like, you’re not good [00:23:00] at it yet. Right. And so we, we all, when you take a look at sports, we take a look at our learning. We take a look at our discipline, they ended up, you look at parenting. We take a look at riding a bike, all of those things, right? If you find that you’re not confident in it, if you find that you are not experienced in it, that is an indicator of practice is required.
So therefore practice those conversations, practice, having those conversation. So practice getting a no practice on the opportunity of getting a yes. Right. And it’s okay to let someone know off the bat. Listen, I’m really nervous about this conversation. I’m not as practiced at this yet. So if I’m fumbling right now, if I seem nervous right now and it’s okay to let someone know that right, is to say, listen, I’m not as practiced on this yet.
Um, you know, and here’s the situation, I would also say, know your audience because sometimes there are narcissists out there who, who take. The clients who have taken pleasure in the nervousness and misery of others, and it becomes [00:24:00] an alpha dominance thing, but it’s really cruelly played. So if that is your leader, I would suggest keep that close to the vest.
I would not. I would not say that you’re nervous to them at all. I would actually just go in with one bullet point and say, this is what I’m looking for. This is how I’m hoping to do it. And that would be it. But, but generally. People are not like that. They’re not, there are some, and there’s enough out there that you should know, and it will tarnish you from the others.
Well, in with those people, you need to play off of their greed and ego. Right? You need to recognize that that’s what it is. And, uh, you know, and do what you need to do to get what you want. Or the second thing I would say, um, as a final thing for me is. You know, engage other people that may have engaged that person or similar situation, right?
So your own network, your colleagues, or, you know, and that too can be, but the comfort zone is going to be there. So you may have a family member. You have a good friend. We could say, listen, Christopher, I need to have this conversation. And so I’m actually curious. Have you ever had a conversation. This with [00:25:00] your boss.
So similar situation, it’s not, Hey, have you ever had a conversation like this with your best friend? Right. If it’s a best friend, you’re trying to talk to sure. But try to make it as similar as possible. Now keep in mind, they’re giving you regardless of how it comes out, they’re giving you their interpretation.
Okay. It doesn’t mean that you have to take what they say and do exactly. You’re just learning from that experience. Right. And, um, and then, like you said before, just being prepared for whatever the outcome for the no. And for the yes. Right? Yep. What do you, it’s interesting. Well, it’s interesting because more people will opt to quit.
Instead of speaking up, I think people quit on their marriage. I think people quit on their companies. I think. You know, people do this as opposed to friendships, as opposed to having the difficult conversation. And I’ll tell you something. If I ever hear a client say, and I have, well, if they don’t know, I’m not going to tell them, they should know, I get really righteous about it.
It’s like, why should they know? Why should they know? [00:26:00] So here’s, here’s my top two, one built off of. Uh, w one is this. So when you’re practicing, getting know and getting rejection, that’s where that book rejection proof comes in so handy. Um, it can be helpful to have a coach with you. Kyle is really stellar at this, and certainly something that he’s practiced at I’ve gotten a whole lot better on it.
So I ended up coaching a lot of clients on it as well. And I think it’s, it’s interesting to see the two perspectives because we do take different approaches, but both seem to be effective. Uh, but get practiced at it. And the way I tell people to get practiced at it is, is by testing it and in situations that carry less risk.
So situations like, um, go to a restaurant and see if you can make substitutions to your order, like make. Make, um, like a major adaption to a menu item or ask us like, you know what, there’s nothing on the menu that I can eat. Can your chef put together, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Um, oftentimes chefs actually like this because it [00:27:00] gives them something new and creative to do.
They can’t or won’t, but, but the idea is that it’s like, what’s the big deal. If you hear no, right. It’s, it’s a pretty insignificant thing. No, you might feel away. And I encourage you to, to, uh, observe your emotions around it and say, well, isn’t that interesting that I’m responding this way. So that would be the first thing.
I think the second thing. You really have to know what you want. And I think getting, I think, I think coming with clarity, like don’t go to your leader and say, I’m overwhelmed without having a plan about what your desire is. Not just your needs, but your wants, what do you want? How do you want to see it fixed?
Don’t go to your leader and say, I’m overwhelmed. They will just take work away and assign it to someone else. I think very clearly, this is the stuff that I really shine in and would like to keep this as the stuff that’s getting me down. Could we look at a resource for this? You know, whatever it is. I think you need to be really specific.
Like if you’re like, well, I want to [00:28:00] raise. And here’s what I think is fair. And. And so it’s like, but I’ll take it down by an extra $10, because I feel like that $10 will matter to them. And it’s like, based on what, that’s your own opinion go in and ask for what you want and, and begin your conversation from that perspective.
I would also say you have to learn how to ask. Yeah. Two things that popped up there for me is the first part is when we talk about being clear, one of the things that I often used to hear a lot, and I hear leaders talk about it is when people says I don’t feel challenged. Do you know what that means to a leader?
Give you more work? And that may not be what you want, right? Cause like you want to be challenged. All right. Here’s another thing. Here’s another thing. So you gotta be clear. You mean. A few challenged, meaning you may not be doing meaningful work. So be clear, like Richard said is you want to be clear? The second part, I would say just about the money piece and sometimes, you know, cause we’re giving me, cause we talk about these things all the time.
I don’t know if we talked about on podcasts or we talk about it in blogs or we do something with it, but one of the thing is attach the race [00:29:00] to something that makes sense for you. So you want to do more, you want to do. Exactly. It’s like attached to something. Cause when your boss hears that, Hey, I want to buy my first home.
Hey, I want to put my kids through the following. Hey, I want to do get another vacation in, Hey, I want to treat myself to such as such and I need this salary that helps me further in my financial freedom or financial dream. That makes sense. You going in saying, I want 10 more thousand. I want 50 more thousand.
Cause here’s the thing you’ll always want more money. But if it’s attached to something, your boss and other people, they want those things to happen for you because they know what it’s about. So if we haven’t done a podcast on that, we definitely should. But anyway, um, those are really good suggestions. Folks. Thanks very much for tuning in today.
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